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登录【世界网友】中国Vs世界，TI4中国战队的胜利8强占5席
【世界网友】中国Vs世界，TI4中国战队的胜利8强占5席
由 Admin 周日 七月 20, 2014 1:07 am
2014年第四届DOTA2西雅图国际邀请赛决赛
2014年第四届DOTA2西雅图国际邀请赛决赛将于7月18日-21日开战，决赛地点将转移到美职篮原西雅图超音速队的主场“钥匙球馆”举行。
TI4总共将邀请16支队伍参赛，其中11支由V社直接邀请，其余名额将在区域选拔赛中产生。
NappingPanda 美国龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
-----龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
Much has been said about Chinese dota in the past. Some think the Chinese are weak and some think they are overrated. The results of this ti have proven the strength of Chinese dota. 5 teams in the top 8 is no joke. Why are they winning? Are they simply more talented? No they are not. Do they have better organization support than the west? Maybe but teams like navi and Titan have similar set ups. So why are they winning? According to interviews Chinese pros attribute their success to practice. I guess after all is said and done hard work does matter. Burning once tweeted there is nothing more scary than more talented players out working you. I guess the Chinese teams worked the ass off to get ready. The next week will be super exciting just like the play off of the World Cup. Good luck to everyone no matter what happens. This ti have been the best so far, can't wait to see how things play out.
关于中国战队的言论以早有讨论。有些人认为中国战队很弱，也有些人认为他们被过誉了。本届Ti证明了中国dota的实力。前八中有五支中国战队并不是闹着玩的。为什么他们能取得胜利？因为他们更有天赋？并不是如此。难道是他们得到的团队支持比西方战队的多？可能，但NaVi和Titan也如此。 那原因究竟是什么？
根据采访来看中国职业选手将胜利归于训练。我猜归根结底努力还是有结果的。 B神有一次发微博说 没有比 天赋超常并比你更努力的选手 更可怕的了。 我推测中国职业选手为了备战废寝忘食。 下一周将如同世界杯加赛一样令人激动。 不管什么发生祝福所有的战队。 这届Ti是有史以来最棒的，我已经迫不及待了。
MotanuD 罗马尼亚
-----
So far they have far superior drafts and a clear gameplan. Also they retain their traditional ability of taking full advantage of opponent's mistakes.
目前看来中国战队的阵容选择和游戏计划都更胜一筹。 他们一直以来能抓住对手失误的优点也得以延续。
Raina 新加坡
-----
They have nothing, but train all day
1) Bad TI3;
2) Reform of DK;
3) (which leads to) Rise of VG;
4) Prideful iG wants pride back
5) New Protagonist, Newbee
Failing badly at TI3 (Chinese teams fail to land in top 3) leads to reforms in teams, organisers, tournament frequency. Sharp increase in day to day competitive games between teams.
The chinese just treat their dota more seriously.
All teams can study and draft the same way, but to execute certain plan A or B, needs a lot of training.
他们没有别的，全靠夜以继日的训练。
1) Ti3的惨败
2) DK的重组
3) (导致了) VG的崛起
4) IG想夺回荣誉
5) 新的主角， Newbee
Ti3的惨败导致了战队，机构和赛事的调整。 战队之间的训练也急剧增加。
中国战队只是对Dota更认真。
所有的战队都能像他们一样分析和选人，但是能否有如此的执行力需要长期的训练。
BigD 美国
-----
TI3 was the wake up call. Lot of people said TI3 represented the downfall of the Chinese. I saw it as their rise. Like the prideful Chinese would take such a loss and give up, if anything, they become more motivated by it.
Ti3给他们敲响了警钟。 很多人说Ti3昭示着中国战队的沦亡。 我却认为是他们的崛起。 说的好像自豪的中国战队会甘于失败并放弃，不，他们反而更加有斗志。
Lokat 澳大利亚
------
TBO the Chinese teams are the most stressful teams. Since days after Ti1, If they lost the Ti title, they will suffer from sarcasm in the next whole year. And, the rewards of Ti champion are kind of life-changing for some of them, not only the money, but also the champion effect I suppose.
老实说中国战队的压力是最大的。 自Ti开始， 如果他们没有拿到冠军，接下来的一年他们都讲受到讥讽。 而且对某些选手的来说，Ti的奖金将彻底改变他们的生活，不仅仅是那丰厚的奖金，还有冠军效益。
imashamedofmycountrymen 菲律宾
-----
If anything, it retains the equilibrium of powers in East vs. West
TI1 - Na'Vi (West)
TI2 - iG (East)
TI3 - Alliance (West)
TI4 - we still dont know but 3/4 Teams in UB are Chinese teams
every year one team wins the TI, then they lax, they play so good that they forget to innovate, and the losers practice harder and counteract the winner's strategies.
just last year we are praising Alliance's winstreak and their commitment to practice, but the truth is, they counteract Morph turtle strat (Morph is the hero of TI2 afaik) by using r[A]t doto.
this year people figured out r[A]t playstyle by using teamfight oriented lineup.
expect by next year West teams will figure out how to counter teamfight doto and dominate TI5.
sorry, SEA region btw.
其实中国战队和欧美的实力是均衡的
TI1 - Na'Vi (欧美)
TI2 - iG (中国)
TI3 - Alliance (欧美)
TI4 - 还不确定但是胜者组有三支中国战队
每年的冠军队伍第二年都很鱼，他们没有创新。 失败的战队更加努力并针对胜利战队的策略。
就像去年我们夸A队的连胜和训练的投入，其实是他们针对水人的带球策略（据我所知水人是Ti2的招牌英雄）
今年大家通过团战阵容来克制他们带球。
所以我推测明年欧美队将会针对团战阵容并称霸Ti5.
Vespener 加拿大
-----
Well... to take back the pride they have they must win, any of them... and to an extend to get at least 3 teams in top 5. Less than that is just not enough. That being said, EG is still a great team that can actually win this TI (not that Cloud9 or Na'Vi can't, but the chances are low given how games went against DK and Newbee). This means that even though you can be best country in something there might be teams in other parts that can challenge you.
Anyway, this results already prove that China, as a scene for Dota, is the best one in the world (nowadays and contrary of what some people say) having 5 of the 5 teams in the best 8. From here there is just teams as a unit.
嗯.. 为了荣誉他们必需得取得胜利，每一支中国队，起码包揽前五中的三个。 低于这个目标都不能让人满意。尽管如此，EG还是一支很强的战队，他们也有可能夺得冠军（并不是说Na'Vi和C9不行，只是在输给DK和NB之后他们的机会很小） 这意味着即使你是某项最强的国家，其他地区的战队依然可以挑战你。
无论如何，前八中有五支中国对，目前的结果已经证明了中国是DOTA世界第一（目前看来，和某些人说的相反） 从这一刻开始，每一个战队都是一个个体。
Azarkon 美国
-----
Success is relative. EU failed this year. and that is why the Chinese look ahead in TI. Consider the normal ranking of teams in TI - it's typically EU > NA, with an EU favorite at the top of the Western charts. This year, however, it's a NA team at the top, and no EU favorite in sight. Had it been otherwise, we see, at the minimum, a 4:4 China:West ratio, which doesn't at all show the Chinese being ahead.
成功是相对的。 欧洲战队今天的溃败让中国战队看上去更加领先。 根据Ti中战队的常规排名来看，通常欧美战队>北美战队，并以一支大家最喜爱的欧洲战队领跑欧美。 今年，北美战队则领跑，并且没有看到一支欧洲战队。 这样看来，至少中国战队和欧美的比例是4：4（感觉这人数学不好）并没有证明中国领跑。
Azarkon 美国
-------
The cultural/innate talent arguments are not logical, because had they been, then last year the Chinese ought to have succeeded too, but they did not. The practice argument has a bit of merit insofar as it's capable of being shown that the Chinese were slacking off last year, but there's only evidence that iG did.
文化/天赋的论证并不符合逻辑，按照这样来说，去年中国战队也应该获胜，但事实没有。更多练习的论证目前看来还是可取的，它确实表明了去年中国战队有点偷懒，不过只有iG可以真正证实这一点
NappingPanda 美国
------
（回复Azarkon)
if it is 4 china and 4 west then China is ahead. 4 teams from on country vs 4 team from a continent? A country vs a continent? don't forget the region EU have got more dota players than China.
如果是4支中国队和4支欧美队领跑的话，怎么能用一个国家和另一个大洲来比？不要忘记欧洲的dota玩家比中国的要多。
ADtab00 菲律宾
-----
TI says it all. 5 chinese teams = China being ahead in terms of meta. but the rise of NA dota is still debatable but i doubt it, EG's pick are easily countered eg. Tinker, Enigma, Bane, Treant, FV, while countering DK's draft and other chinese team is hard so the versatility is there so basically if EG wants to win this year's TI then they have one hell of a fight against chinese teams. simple. why complicate?
Ti证明了一切。五支中国队领先证明了中国队的确领跑。但是北美dota的崛起还值得讨论并且我质疑这个观点。 EG的阵容很容易被针对，例如：修补匠，谜团，祸乱之源，大树，虚空。但针对DK和其他中国队就很难因为他们很灵活。 所以简单来说EG要是想赢的话必须要打得天昏地暗。就这么简单。
Azarkon
-----
5 Chinese teams but 2 of them were inches from being eliminated during the group/tiebreakers. I don't think it shows that their 'meta' is ahead. In that case, why didn't they crush through the first two days? That's when meta matters the greatest. Later days allow teams opportunities to adapt to the new meta, and that's when we see Chinese teams persevere.
5支中国队但有2支在淘汰赛差点就出局。我不认为他们的套路领先。照这样说为什么他们没有在头两天打爆对手？这样才能证明套路最重要。后来几天让队伍么们适应了新的套路，我们才看到了中国战队的韧性。
nevermore_sf 中国
-----
It is a popular misconception that you think Chinese players are always hard working. Actually there is inertia deep in Chinese character if there is nothing stimulating them they will just playing around all day long. Before Misery left China he said in a interview that in last December there is no match for him to play except WPA-ACE and all Chinese pro players were fancy in that dota2 RPG(I don't remember it's English name). So after a big win in TI2, having such less matches on schedule, the whole scene was slacking off inevitably.
通常的误区就是中国选手都很努力。事实上中国人性格里有种惰性，如果没有激励的话他们就会整天荒废。Misery离开中国之前他在十二月的一次采访中说到除了WPA-ACE外他基本没有什么比赛可以打。 所有中国职业选手都沉迷于RPG中（哈哈 龙神祸害的吗）所以Ti2的大胜和寥寥无几的比赛导致了他们的沉沦。
Azarkon 回复 nevermore_sf
-----
In that case, the issue is lack of proper coaching and discipline in the gaming culture, not the quantity of tournaments because I simply do not see how $500-1000 weekly cups ought to motivate you to train day on day when a $10 million tournament at the end of the year does not.
照这样说，是因为缺少专业的教练和自制力（导致了Ti3的惨败)，并不是比赛的数量。因为我不懂如果百万美金的比赛都不能激励他们训练的话，那些没什么奖金的小比赛又有什么作用？
wesker1988 美国
-----
Chinese Dota was always at high level (not top all the time though) since 2011 except TI3 when they had only few tournaments in China before TI3. It shouldn't be a surprise they are doing great in this TI.
中国dota自从2011以来一直都很厉害（虽然没有一直排在第一），除了Ti3的时候因为缺少比赛经验而折戟。这届Ti的表现并不让人惊讶。
SimpleAs123
------
Chinese teams practice their laning fundamentals more. Less flashy plays and more incremental games. Laning advantages snowball. Laning disadvantages aren't as severe.
Chinese teams have a well developed early game. If they win the lanes, they start taking objectives quickly. Even if they lose the lanes, they have a transition that weather disadvantages and looks for comeback opportunities. It's not common to see a Chinese team actually behind in towers and objectives at The International.
Chinese teams have better handle on the tempo. Mainly they are taking the initiative, sometime when they are behind.
Chinese teams adapted. They simply adapted to new picks. They're also adapting successfully in the middle of a tournament.
中国战队的对线基本功训练的更多。他们打的没有那么华丽但很稳健。对线的优势可以转化为优势，但对线期的劣势并不致命。
中国战队的前期策略已经很成熟，如果他们对线有优势，他们就立马拿下对手。如果他们对线打不过，他们会转换策略并等待翻盘的机会。很少看到中国战队在推塔和人头数量上落后。
中国战队的节奏把握也更好，主要体现在他们敢打先手，即使他们在落后的情况下。
中国战队适应力强。他们适应了新的整容，他们也在成功适应了联赛。
2014年第四届DOTA2西雅图国际邀请赛决赛将于7月18日-21日开战，决赛地点将转移到美职篮原西雅图超音速队的主场“钥匙球馆”举行。
TI4总共将邀请16支队伍参赛，其中11支由V社直接邀请，其余名额将在区域选拔赛中产生。
NappingPanda 美国龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
-----龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com
Much has been said about Chinese dota in the past. Some think the Chinese are weak and some think they are overrated. The results of this ti have proven the strength of Chinese dota. 5 teams in the top 8 is no joke. Why are they winning? Are they simply more talented? No they are not. Do they have better organization support than the west? Maybe but teams like navi and Titan have similar set ups. So why are they winning? According to interviews Chinese pros attribute their success to practice. I guess after all is said and done hard work does matter. Burning once tweeted there is nothing more scary than more talented players out working you. I guess the Chinese teams worked the ass off to get ready. The next week will be super exciting just like the play off of the World Cup. Good luck to everyone no matter what happens. This ti have been the best so far, can't wait to see how things play out.
关于中国战队的言论以早有讨论。有些人认为中国战队很弱，也有些人认为他们被过誉了。本届Ti证明了中国dota的实力。前八中有五支中国战队并不是闹着玩的。为什么他们能取得胜利？因为他们更有天赋？并不是如此。难道是他们得到的团队支持比西方战队的多？可能，但NaVi和Titan也如此。 那原因究竟是什么？
根据采访来看中国职业选手将胜利归于训练。我猜归根结底努力还是有结果的。 B神有一次发微博说 没有比 天赋超常并比你更努力的选手 更可怕的了。 我推测中国职业选手为了备战废寝忘食。 下一周将如同世界杯加赛一样令人激动。 不管什么发生祝福所有的战队。 这届Ti是有史以来最棒的，我已经迫不及待了。
MotanuD 罗马尼亚
-----
So far they have far superior drafts and a clear gameplan. Also they retain their traditional ability of taking full advantage of opponent's mistakes.
目前看来中国战队的阵容选择和游戏计划都更胜一筹。 他们一直以来能抓住对手失误的优点也得以延续。
Raina 新加坡
-----
They have nothing, but train all day
1) Bad TI3;
2) Reform of DK;
3) (which leads to) Rise of VG;
4) Prideful iG wants pride back
5) New Protagonist, Newbee
Failing badly at TI3 (Chinese teams fail to land in top 3) leads to reforms in teams, organisers, tournament frequency. Sharp increase in day to day competitive games between teams.
The chinese just treat their dota more seriously.
All teams can study and draft the same way, but to execute certain plan A or B, needs a lot of training.
他们没有别的，全靠夜以继日的训练。
1) Ti3的惨败
2) DK的重组
3) (导致了) VG的崛起
4) IG想夺回荣誉
5) 新的主角， Newbee
Ti3的惨败导致了战队，机构和赛事的调整。 战队之间的训练也急剧增加。
中国战队只是对Dota更认真。
所有的战队都能像他们一样分析和选人，但是能否有如此的执行力需要长期的训练。
BigD 美国
-----
TI3 was the wake up call. Lot of people said TI3 represented the downfall of the Chinese. I saw it as their rise. Like the prideful Chinese would take such a loss and give up, if anything, they become more motivated by it.
Ti3给他们敲响了警钟。 很多人说Ti3昭示着中国战队的沦亡。 我却认为是他们的崛起。 说的好像自豪的中国战队会甘于失败并放弃，不，他们反而更加有斗志。
Lokat 澳大利亚
------
TBO the Chinese teams are the most stressful teams. Since days after Ti1, If they lost the Ti title, they will suffer from sarcasm in the next whole year. And, the rewards of Ti champion are kind of life-changing for some of them, not only the money, but also the champion effect I suppose.
老实说中国战队的压力是最大的。 自Ti开始， 如果他们没有拿到冠军，接下来的一年他们都讲受到讥讽。 而且对某些选手的来说，Ti的奖金将彻底改变他们的生活，不仅仅是那丰厚的奖金，还有冠军效益。
imashamedofmycountrymen 菲律宾
-----
If anything, it retains the equilibrium of powers in East vs. West
TI1 - Na'Vi (West)
TI2 - iG (East)
TI3 - Alliance (West)
TI4 - we still dont know but 3/4 Teams in UB are Chinese teams
every year one team wins the TI, then they lax, they play so good that they forget to innovate, and the losers practice harder and counteract the winner's strategies.
just last year we are praising Alliance's winstreak and their commitment to practice, but the truth is, they counteract Morph turtle strat (Morph is the hero of TI2 afaik) by using r[A]t doto.
this year people figured out r[A]t playstyle by using teamfight oriented lineup.
expect by next year West teams will figure out how to counter teamfight doto and dominate TI5.
sorry, SEA region btw.
其实中国战队和欧美的实力是均衡的
TI1 - Na'Vi (欧美)
TI2 - iG (中国)
TI3 - Alliance (欧美)
TI4 - 还不确定但是胜者组有三支中国战队
每年的冠军队伍第二年都很鱼，他们没有创新。 失败的战队更加努力并针对胜利战队的策略。
就像去年我们夸A队的连胜和训练的投入，其实是他们针对水人的带球策略（据我所知水人是Ti2的招牌英雄）
今年大家通过团战阵容来克制他们带球。
所以我推测明年欧美队将会针对团战阵容并称霸Ti5.
Vespener 加拿大
-----
Well... to take back the pride they have they must win, any of them... and to an extend to get at least 3 teams in top 5. Less than that is just not enough. That being said, EG is still a great team that can actually win this TI (not that Cloud9 or Na'Vi can't, but the chances are low given how games went against DK and Newbee). This means that even though you can be best country in something there might be teams in other parts that can challenge you.
Anyway, this results already prove that China, as a scene for Dota, is the best one in the world (nowadays and contrary of what some people say) having 5 of the 5 teams in the best 8. From here there is just teams as a unit.
嗯.. 为了荣誉他们必需得取得胜利，每一支中国队，起码包揽前五中的三个。 低于这个目标都不能让人满意。尽管如此，EG还是一支很强的战队，他们也有可能夺得冠军（并不是说Na'Vi和C9不行，只是在输给DK和NB之后他们的机会很小） 这意味着即使你是某项最强的国家，其他地区的战队依然可以挑战你。
无论如何，前八中有五支中国对，目前的结果已经证明了中国是DOTA世界第一（目前看来，和某些人说的相反） 从这一刻开始，每一个战队都是一个个体。
Azarkon 美国
-----
Success is relative. EU failed this year. and that is why the Chinese look ahead in TI. Consider the normal ranking of teams in TI - it's typically EU > NA, with an EU favorite at the top of the Western charts. This year, however, it's a NA team at the top, and no EU favorite in sight. Had it been otherwise, we see, at the minimum, a 4:4 China:West ratio, which doesn't at all show the Chinese being ahead.
成功是相对的。 欧洲战队今天的溃败让中国战队看上去更加领先。 根据Ti中战队的常规排名来看，通常欧美战队>北美战队，并以一支大家最喜爱的欧洲战队领跑欧美。 今年，北美战队则领跑，并且没有看到一支欧洲战队。 这样看来，至少中国战队和欧美的比例是4：4（感觉这人数学不好）并没有证明中国领跑。
Azarkon 美国
-------
The cultural/innate talent arguments are not logical, because had they been, then last year the Chinese ought to have succeeded too, but they did not. The practice argument has a bit of merit insofar as it's capable of being shown that the Chinese were slacking off last year, but there's only evidence that iG did.
文化/天赋的论证并不符合逻辑，按照这样来说，去年中国战队也应该获胜，但事实没有。更多练习的论证目前看来还是可取的，它确实表明了去年中国战队有点偷懒，不过只有iG可以真正证实这一点
NappingPanda 美国
------
（回复Azarkon)
if it is 4 china and 4 west then China is ahead. 4 teams from on country vs 4 team from a continent? A country vs a continent? don't forget the region EU have got more dota players than China.
如果是4支中国队和4支欧美队领跑的话，怎么能用一个国家和另一个大洲来比？不要忘记欧洲的dota玩家比中国的要多。
ADtab00 菲律宾
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TI says it all. 5 chinese teams = China being ahead in terms of meta. but the rise of NA dota is still debatable but i doubt it, EG's pick are easily countered eg. Tinker, Enigma, Bane, Treant, FV, while countering DK's draft and other chinese team is hard so the versatility is there so basically if EG wants to win this year's TI then they have one hell of a fight against chinese teams. simple. why complicate?
Ti证明了一切。五支中国队领先证明了中国队的确领跑。但是北美dota的崛起还值得讨论并且我质疑这个观点。 EG的阵容很容易被针对，例如：修补匠，谜团，祸乱之源，大树，虚空。但针对DK和其他中国队就很难因为他们很灵活。 所以简单来说EG要是想赢的话必须要打得天昏地暗。就这么简单。
Azarkon
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5 Chinese teams but 2 of them were inches from being eliminated during the group/tiebreakers. I don't think it shows that their 'meta' is ahead. In that case, why didn't they crush through the first two days? That's when meta matters the greatest. Later days allow teams opportunities to adapt to the new meta, and that's when we see Chinese teams persevere.
5支中国队但有2支在淘汰赛差点就出局。我不认为他们的套路领先。照这样说为什么他们没有在头两天打爆对手？这样才能证明套路最重要。后来几天让队伍么们适应了新的套路，我们才看到了中国战队的韧性。
nevermore_sf 中国
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It is a popular misconception that you think Chinese players are always hard working. Actually there is inertia deep in Chinese character if there is nothing stimulating them they will just playing around all day long. Before Misery left China he said in a interview that in last December there is no match for him to play except WPA-ACE and all Chinese pro players were fancy in that dota2 RPG(I don't remember it's English name). So after a big win in TI2, having such less matches on schedule, the whole scene was slacking off inevitably.
通常的误区就是中国选手都很努力。事实上中国人性格里有种惰性，如果没有激励的话他们就会整天荒废。Misery离开中国之前他在十二月的一次采访中说到除了WPA-ACE外他基本没有什么比赛可以打。 所有中国职业选手都沉迷于RPG中（哈哈 龙神祸害的吗）所以Ti2的大胜和寥寥无几的比赛导致了他们的沉沦。
Azarkon 回复 nevermore_sf
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In that case, the issue is lack of proper coaching and discipline in the gaming culture, not the quantity of tournaments because I simply do not see how $500-1000 weekly cups ought to motivate you to train day on day when a $10 million tournament at the end of the year does not.
照这样说，是因为缺少专业的教练和自制力（导致了Ti3的惨败)，并不是比赛的数量。因为我不懂如果百万美金的比赛都不能激励他们训练的话，那些没什么奖金的小比赛又有什么作用？
wesker1988 美国
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Chinese Dota was always at high level (not top all the time though) since 2011 except TI3 when they had only few tournaments in China before TI3. It shouldn't be a surprise they are doing great in this TI.
中国dota自从2011以来一直都很厉害（虽然没有一直排在第一），除了Ti3的时候因为缺少比赛经验而折戟。这届Ti的表现并不让人惊讶。
SimpleAs123
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Chinese teams practice their laning fundamentals more. Less flashy plays and more incremental games. Laning advantages snowball. Laning disadvantages aren't as severe.
Chinese teams have a well developed early game. If they win the lanes, they start taking objectives quickly. Even if they lose the lanes, they have a transition that weather disadvantages and looks for comeback opportunities. It's not common to see a Chinese team actually behind in towers and objectives at The International.
Chinese teams have better handle on the tempo. Mainly they are taking the initiative, sometime when they are behind.
Chinese teams adapted. They simply adapted to new picks. They're also adapting successfully in the middle of a tournament.
中国战队的对线基本功训练的更多。他们打的没有那么华丽但很稳健。对线的优势可以转化为优势，但对线期的劣势并不致命。
中国战队的前期策略已经很成熟，如果他们对线有优势，他们就立马拿下对手。如果他们对线打不过，他们会转换策略并等待翻盘的机会。很少看到中国战队在推塔和人头数量上落后。
中国战队的节奏把握也更好，主要体现在他们敢打先手，即使他们在落后的情况下。
中国战队适应力强。他们适应了新的整容，他们也在成功适应了联赛。
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